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Does the value of numismatic quality coins depreciate?
I pulled the trigger on a coin earlier.
It was a Morgan dollar....and the cost of it (and the shipping) was lower than the stated Red Book value.....(but obviously over melt value) Sure...a coin is worth only as much as a person will pay for it.... But let's assume that the grade I gave it by viewing its picture is actually correct. LET ME REPEAT THAT FOR YOU IDIOTS WHO WILL TELL ME THAT THE QUALITY WILL BE LOWER....AND THAT THEY ARE FREAKIN' AWESOME BECAUSE THEY BOUGHT SOMETHING FOR 7.9848423312 X FACE VALUE TODAY (I'm just trying to get a sense of the market) If I hold on to the coin...is there a possibility that it will decrease in value? Basically....does the value of numismatic quality of silver coins depreciate.... Thank you..... |
Re: Does the value of numismatic quality coins depreciate?
I think you would need to provide more information to get a better response. If you can let us know year and mint mark along with the grade you assigned you might get a better answer.
One of the reasons why a coin may depreciate in value is that better coins may come into the market thereby driving your value down. If you bought a VAM this is entirely possible. However, if you just pulled the trigger on an EF 1893S I think you will do okay long term. You might want to check the Greysheet before you put down serious money on a coin in the future. I like using the Redbook for pulling mintage but not for pricing. 65GT30 |
Re: Does the value of numismatic quality coins depreciate?
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The only time that I have heard of a Numi loosing value, was when somewhere there has been Mint bags full of the same coin sitting in an obscure vault since the day they were minted. There is one more however. That would be freshly minted coins that have been brought up from the ocean floor when the transport ship that they were on had been discovered. One of those coins would be the 1857 S Liberty $20 Double Eagles that were found on the The S.S. Central America. The S.S. Central America carried as cargo most of the San Francisco’s mint production of $20 Liberties for the year 1857. Embarking from Panama, the S.S. Central America sailed around Cuba on its way to New York, but tragically sank off the coast of Virginia in foul weather. The wreck was discovered in 1989, and it has taken until now to untangle the legalities of ownership and dispersal rights. Prior to the discovery of the wreck, only about 35 coins dated 1857-S were known to exist in uncirculated condition. According to the April 2000 PCGS population report, there are now more than 3,200! One astonishing fact about the S.S. Central America hoard is the complete lack of diversity in the group. Approximately 95% of the coins recovered are 1857-S $20 gold pieces; there is no depth or real secondary choices from this incredible find. http://tigerhawk.blogspot.com/2007/0...-of-black.html This is one of many cases. There have also been hoards found in private collector's estates. I hope this helps you out. One more thing though, there is no reason to call fellow GIMer's Idiots or to put down the fact that they may have found great deals. We all don't agree on everything, yet we seam to be able to dialogue without resorting to juvenile name calling. Just my point oh two. Maranatha, :smile: |
Re: Does the value of numismatic quality coins depreciate?
if you clean it, it will lose value. Buy an air-tite holder for it.
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Re: Does the value of numismatic quality coins depreciate?
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I had just stepped out of the "Faith and Religion" section...so I had a bit of an attitude....my bad. |
Re: Does the value of numismatic quality coins depreciate?
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I think the following graph answers your question. It is the PCGS Morgan and Peace dollar index since 1970.
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Re: Does the value of numismatic quality coins depreciate?
Starting off by addressing someone you are asking help of as "IDIOT" is probably not the best place to begin.
With that said, there has been more "dollar depreciation" in the numismatic market due to overgrading than any other factor. Grading is not a scientific absolute......there are always opposing opinions, especially between a buyer and a seller...... downgrade when you buy, overgrade when you sell...... the usual routine. Then there is "grade creep" over a period of time. A good example are the old "green lable" PCGS holders that commonly demand higher prices than newer PCGS slabbed coins. Prices rise and fall in numismatics according to supply and demand, just as according to popularity of a particular issue. "...a coin is worth only as much as a person will pay for it...." Generally true, though it's really more a matter of "finding the right buyer for the coin" than accepting a low-ball offer. Red Book values are nothing much more than retail estimates that are usually complied at least a year in advance. Prices may have risen or fallen before or since publication of your particular issue. Short answer...... YES, numismatic coins can fall in value...... or rise in value...... or stay the same. No market is constant or static in nature, none "always rise" or "always fall". Most values are simply judged by what a particular coin will bring on the current open market according to accurate grading, popularity, scaricity, market conditions, and other factors. |
Re: Does the value of numismatic quality coins depreciate?
Numismatic coins are a commodity just like anything else; they rise and fall based upon supply and demand.
It is similar to the stock market, except numismatics cannot go to 0FRNs. One coin can skyrocket and make a fortune, another can plummet and you can wait decades to try and recoup. General speaking anything 1850 or earlier is a good investment for now, and more expensive. The Great Ag |
Re: Does the value of numismatic quality coins depreciate?
I'm a newbie, and no coin collector. Having said that, I feel that in a TEOTWAWKI situation, a coin will only worth the metal. To sell rare coins at their "value", you require people with "cash" and a desire to buy rare coins. What will be "cash" when the SHTF? Probably gold and silver coins.
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Re: Does the value of numismatic quality coins depreciate?
there are two components to value here, the metal value and the numi value.
the easiest way to understand it is that the metal value is a floor and the numi is a premium. the interesting thing is that when the gold or silver price spikes, a lot of "numismatic" coins get melted just for bullion value. or that's what happened back when the Hunt bros tried to corner silver, so I've heard. a quasi numismatic bullion coin like a St Gaudens has a certain premium associated with type, scarcity, and condition-- but for most of them the larger component of value is the POG. I personally prefer sovereign minted coins over rounds, and the older the better. Right now, there are a lot of gold fractionals for sale at apmex if you want to pick up some low-markup french and swiss gold francs. I really prefer that stuff to bars which to me are very boring and krugers which are ugly as hell. |
Re: Does the value of numismatic quality coins depreciate?
"Every Numismatic coin that I have, have all increased in value."
what is your basis for that statement??? If you are making that statement based out of what the blue book says or the red book, or even what the greysheet says, it is most likely not accurate. the only way to judge if your coins have increased in value is to take them to several different coin buyers/dealers and ask them what they would pay you for them. ebay seems to be a good way to move coins for retail instead of wholesale (which is what you will get from a coin dealer). But, your ebay fees, paypal fees, etc which have to be taken account of, and , it can take considerable time to move a large amount of coins. I find your statement almost impossible to believe. I have collected coins (many of them key pieces) since I was young, in the mid 1970's, and most of my coins, might, might, be worth what I paid for them today. A few are somewhat higher, some pretty close, and quite a few lower. dealing with silver and gold coins that carry a numismatic value in addition to their silver or gold content is somewhat different. When silver is in a bull mkt (like it is now) almost all numismatic silver coins rise in value, just because of the silver value. I have noticed that it also tends to raise their numismatic value also because of the bull mkt bias. But, when the silver mkt goes down, the value of coins usually drops right with the silver mkt, and, in many cases those coins also suffer an additional drop in numismatic value because nobody wants to hold a silver numismatic coin that is going lower just because of the silver mkt. Buying numismatic gold and silver coins, in a silver or gold bull mkt, CAN (not always) be a good way to play a silver or gold bull mkt, because the numismatic aspect tends to leverage the investment. But, spreads can be horrible on numismatic coins, unless you do your homework. Making money from collecting coins is a difficult business at best. To accurately figure out what your coins are worth, you have to take them to a buyer and find out what he will give you for them. The numbers you get of these books means absoloutly nothing. There have been many coin collectors who thought there coins were worth a lot more than they were based on some values they got for them out of a book or coinworld magazines. |
Re: Does the value of numismatic quality coins depreciate?
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Re: Does the value of numismatic quality coins depreciate?
the price of majorly scare and rare coins of high quality does not tend to go down but up.
those coins are EXPENSIVE. the usual piffle sold and collected as "numismatic" is usually neither rare nor scare, and when its of the highest quality its abundant. when I say piffle, I include pretty much everthing which I own. I had fun collecting piffle, though, and try to get as good of prices as I can find. I am realistic to understand that, unless I want to go to the trouble of piece-selling everything out on ebay, I would at best break even, if the prices for pms stay where they are. Now there are books you should read if you want to learn about this and just start with the Red Book and also books by Scott Travers. I like this book "88 coins " or something like that-- 44 he says are going up and 44 he says are going down. On that list, out of his recommendations almost NONE of the "buys" are to be had under a hundred per coin. Most not under a thousand. So numismatic trading for investment purposes, requires a decent outlay. Here is another good article. Quote:
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Re: Does the value of numismatic quality coins depreciate?
Then there is buying the way I try to do.
I try to buy modern US or Canadian commerative silver/gold coins at bullion value. So I have two or three things at least at work for me that can drive up the coin's value. 1. Bullion content value 2. Nuisimatic value and to a lesser extent, but on some sets of coins I own 3. Exchange rate conversion |
Re: Does the value of numismatic quality coins depreciate?
I guess it's already been said but most numismatic coins are probably a lousy investment. I've spent about 20 years putting together a collection that likely isn't worth squat to a coin dealer but I don't really care. Old coins are a part of history that you can hold in your hand and enjoy. Isn't it remarkable that something that circulated hundreds of years ago and passed down through the generations can still be bought so cheap?
Heck, you might even get some return on investment... I have sold coins for a profit before but not very often. It really has to be something you do because you enjoy it. If you can make some money too, then that is just an added bonus. |
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Numismatics for fun, bullion for investment. I would only use the most speculative slice of my fun money for numismatics. I personally feel that Krugerrands are the prettiest coins out there, for reasons having nothing to do with their looks. Those 100-Corona restrikes are available closer to melt, though, which makes them even prettier. What is it with coins bearing likenesses of men with massive facial hair? |
Re: Does the value of numismatic quality coins depreciate?
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Re: Does the value of numismatic quality coins depreciate?
Well, not to disagree - cause I don't disagree - but I have a number of old US gold coins - mainly St Gaudins - which I paid $100-200 under current spot price for.......and only a few dollars more than bullion at that time.......all are valued at four nice digits......so they can be a decent investment in the right hands.
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Re: Does the value of numismatic quality coins depreciate?
Same here. My old stuff has appreciated more than bullion coins would have, and because they are standard fare, they'd be very easy to sell quickly if I wanted to. I never sell any, though.
Anyone buying anything as an investment should realize that its value can go up or down depending on supply and demand. The one thing different about coins bought near bullion price is that they will still have SOME value, because gold just isn't that easy to find and dig, and they aren't making more of the old coins, so as time goes by they eventually become more rare. |
Re: Does the value of numismatic quality coins depreciate?
In a recession numismatic coins will lose their value.
You guys are all pretty smart and should be able to figure out why. ----------------------------------------------------------------- If the "Sh*t Hits The Fan" in this country then a slabbed Morgan dollar is only worth an oz. of silver. Anotherwards... coins will have no numismatic value once society breaks down and all hell breaks loose in this country. --------------------------------------------------------------------- This is why I don't own numismatic coins, as I don't want to get caught holding the bag and losing my A$$ owning collector coins. MLS |
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And you know this from.............what?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Experience? <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Research?<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Or are you just guessing your butt off and passing it off as knowledge???<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> From what I have read - even in the darkest times in this country - there were people with money who bought things of value - even if not for full value.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> And when I hear people talk about what will happen WTSHTF - I always look for those who state their OPINIONS as FACT! <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Cause - most who do that (all who do that) haven't lived thru TSHTF - or even the depression!!! Even in my case, my grandparents did - I heard stories - but I suspect NO ONE on this site lived thru it.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Don't take this post personally - its not about "you" - its a reaction to two years of constantly being told (mainly from the younger people, I have no idea how old you are so I am not putting you in that group) what will or will not happen WTSHTF, whose main point of reference is Mad Max and similar movies. They are guessing!<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> First - no has to accept TS Will HTF to that extent - and I have said in well over 2000 posts that is POSSIBLE, but not PROBABLE we'd need up in that dire a situation - humans have a way of muddling thru and somehow society would PROBABLY hold together with bartering, new currencies and a few years of darkness before things recover somewhat..........and, second, that no one here (myself included) knows what would happen if it did cause, it could go down any of a thousand different ways!<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Unfortunately, and I have said this many times before, many posters here do not know the difference between a FACT and a firmly held OPINION. (Opinions hold value - facts, research and knowledge hold even MORE value!)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> HOWEVER - having said that - one final thought............assume you are right..........if things get that bad, the odds are (notice I do not claim to KNOW) that the price of gold and silver would go up SO much that semi-numismatics (not high end ones) would be worth alot more than they are now just for the silver content and no one is going to complain they didn't get a premium over the metal price. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> If gold goes to $3000 its a hell of a lot more than my semi-numismatic St Gaudens are worth now! With my Morgans - except for a few - $100 silver wouldn't break my heart.......<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Cheers!<o:p></o:p> |
Re: Does the value of numismatic quality coins depreciate?
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I think each of us has diferent ideas of what we'd do at the top depending on our situations........for example - I do not own my own home - I rent from a family in-law (well, ex in-law but thats ok - and VERY glad I DO rent and not own) and I keep thinking - if home prices drop as much as I think, and hear from some, I might be able to get a lovely home for a fraction of todays prices. After that - not sure..........heard the Mogambo suggest at THAT time bonds might be good.......by then the market might be a great place to invest with stocks cheap and nowhere to go but up........and I would love to go the numismatic route......... Or even better - buy that bordello I have always wanted!!! :wink: |
Re: Does the value of numismatic quality coins depreciate?
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Any chance you could call and convince my wife????? |
Re: Does the value of numismatic quality coins depreciate?
After the SHTF in this country who is going to buy you guy's baseball cards?
NOT ME! LOL And you coin collectors don't try to sell me any of your red colored slabbed MS 60 wheat pennies. LOL After the SHTF I don't even want to look at you guy's purty little collector pennies and nickels. Because my collection of 9mm hand gun bullets will be worth thousands of $$$$$ more than your pretty little slabbed MS 63 dimes! :) Baseball Cards, Pezz Dispensers and collector coin prices are all speculative. They have no set price, they are useless, and you never know what they are worth! :) You guys who collect numismatic coins are lucky you have Ebay available to you to sell your coins. Because there are thousands of suckers who frequent that website who will buy your collector coins at their inflated prices. But after the SHTF then Ebay will disappear. :) |
Re: Does the value of numismatic quality coins depreciate?
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You'd better hope you are right about your bullets....I suspect they will be worth something in barter but no one has any idea how much. (After all - once shot, they have zero value!) You did - sort of accidently - hit on something important (at least to me) tho.........all my semi-numismatics (with a couple of very tiny exceptions, many for fun) is in gold and silver - no nickels or copper...... And I don't need Ebay to sell them.......and again, you are making HUGE statements that are opinion, not fact........Ebay might, or might not, be there........ I know that to you and many, your opinions carry so much weight they are fact..........MY concern here is that people reading these posts read statements like that and assume they ARE fact.........they are not.........you do not know whats going to happen any more than I do - all we can do is state our best guesses.......... But while I strive to make it clear I am guessing (tho over the years my guesses have been very good - again, I bought gold in 1979 at $365 and sold at $825; bought platinum at $400 and you can see where it is now).....some people are so full of hot air (not saying you) that they post like its God predicting............. Sure - lets all share our opinions - opinions are fine - but lets state them AS opinions - not like knowledge from on high! Cheers! |
Re: Does the value of numismatic quality coins depreciate?
Well, if TSHTF I still expect my old Saints and Liberties to be worth at least about the same as 1 oz of gold. And if times are good, demand will define a premium over the bullion in them. Either way, the downside is limited to the downside on gold itself. It makes no sense to me why the premium has gone from nothing to $50 per coin in the last few months, but that's the way it is. The dealer was saying premiums on the old coins were rising because they are non-reportable, and more in demand as a result. I've been waiting for the prices to go sub $650 again to buy more, but am losing hope that I'll ever see it again.
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Re: Does the value of numismatic quality coins depreciate?
First off what does it mean "When the S hits the fan."
Kings and chieftans rise in every situation. Men who can organize others into social machines of violence. Call them warlords or presidents, any chaos will bring chiefs. Chiefs love gold and always will. There will always be a market for gold. There was no bigger "SHIT THAT HIT THE FAN" than when the Great Khan swept out of the steppes. The mongols genocided entire cities and populations and left mountains of skulls in their wake. And yet the Great Khan had one of the most fantastic hordes of gold in history. Things of beauty are wanted by chiefs, to enhance their glory. Not just bars or ingots. But coins, medallions, and the minted tokens of lost empires, and great hordes of them. So, in the right situation, beautiful things will hold their value-- IF you can hold on to them and have the strength and wits not to be robbed of them. |
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In terms of reality, the SHTF folks have never seen, nor can they give tangible historical examples, beyond dark periods of a couple of years at most. Ya know - we should organize a small group here at GIM made up of people who are realists - people who understand that, outside of nuclear war or biological plague - human life continues and things continue to have value, even if life gets horribly tough. Hmmmm........... I keep thinking about all those, in the 60's, who knew it was the end of the world any moment and were building fallout shelters. At that time, I thought, if things got that bad - the living would envy the dead, when you came out you wouldn't want to be alive. But - more to the point - it never happened and a lot of people wasted a lot of time, money and effort on something that never happened. (I always say - anything is POSSIBLE but most things are not PROBABLE - unfortunately, that which is not probable is, for those people, a lot more dramatic and exciting - so they focus on it!) Since the beginning of time people have always thought the end of their century was going to be the end of the world.........theres 20 times right there it didn't happen. In fact. I don't think any of the SHTF people can point to ANY time it did!! (After all. we are still here and the worst periods were wars, plagues and famines......ok, and 8 years of Bush.) Oh - it WILL happen one day........but I suspect not a single person here will be around to see it......... So, until then, even if TS DOES HTF on SOME level..........humans will survive and want things of value - and ONE of those things will be gold and another, probably silver, along with food and water....and sex. (Hence that bordello I mentioned earlier in the thread.) These SHTF folks would do well to read a little history about the bleaker times........and watch a little less science-fiction films! ((Speaking of which, I hear "I Am Legend" is pretty good and I doubt he needed gold! :D )) |
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